February 7, 1999.

>Amerlise says, "S'gonna be mostly about weapons and combat basics, an' it's gonna start in a sec.."

>Amerlise whispers to the group, "I wasn't planning on silencing us...think I'll have to anyway?"

>Charlston says, "mabye theyll give me a 10x sanctified voln trident in a sheath that has a 10x a day self rechargin rubs of wizard strength"

>Amerlise says, "Okay, before we begin, I should note we aren't giving away any 10x sanctified voln tridents in sheaths that have 10x a day self rechargin rubs of wizard strength.."

>Colbrand mutters false-ads.

>Amerlise says, "We had a 9x one, but Colbrand hid it."

>Amerlise says, "Okay, a few real notes before we go begin.."

>Colbrand grins.

>Amerlise says, "Do you all want me to silence the room? I wasn't planning on it, but I might have to..I'd prefer not to, tho."

[Predominent yes's, a few no's.]

>

*** Amerlise is hushing everyone. ***

>Amerlise says, "Okay...the ayes have it."

>Amerlise says, "Second note...as you might have seen a moment ago, I'm having some weather problems, so try and be understanding if I disappear."

>Amerlise says, "And lastly, I should warn you ahead of time that this IS going to be a fairly numbers-intensive and OOC-type forum.."

>Amerlise says, "So anyone that's going to offend, consider yourself warned.. :)"

>Jinesse smiles at Amerlise.

>Amerlise exclaims, "On that note, welcome to the second in an ongoing series of forums presented by the Mentor society!"

>Amerlise says, "The topic this evening will be weapons and combat..."

>Amerlise says, "We're going to cover such things as weapon speeds, combat basics, and crit and damage weighting, and anything else I think of along the way."

>Amerlise says, "Part of what made us decide to hold this, was the startling amount of misinformation we hear on the net, in the streets, etc.."

>Amerlise says, "And, a lot of this is going to seem obvious to some of you...I don't mean to insult anyone's intelligence. :)"

>Amerlise says, "Okay, with that, on to rumor #1."

>Amerlise says, "Some of you may have, at one time, heard that the type of metal, or the weight of a weapon, affects how well it hits.."

>Amerlise says, "Bzzt, no, thanks for playing."

>Amerlise says, "To demonstrate this, I'm going to go ahead and explain combat basics, or What Happens When You Hit Something."

>Amerlise recites:

"You swing an elegant bone-hilted katana at a hill troll!

AS: +427 vs DS: +62 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +52 = +451

... and hit for 133 points of damage!

Right hip pulped, severing the leg."

>Amerlise says, "Phew. That came out right."

>Amerlise says, "Okay.."

>Amerlise says, "We all know what AS and DS are.."

>Amerlise says, "AvD, as most people probably know, is a rough indicator of how effective a weapon is against the type of armor your opponent has."

>Amerlise asks, "But what happens beyond that?"

>Amerlise says, "Each weapon class has a specific damage factor (DF) against each armor class."

>Amerlise says, "The five armor classes are 1.) skin, 2.) soft leather, 3.) rigid leather or scale, 4.) chain, and 5.) plate armors"

>Amerlise says, "We're going to keep using the above example for most of this, since it's the only one I had time to make.."

>Amerlise says, "First, we need to know what kind of armor the poor troll was wearing.."

Amerlise says, "There are a number of places to get AvD charts, and it's not hard to make your own.."

>Amerlise says, "There are two different armor subgroups a falchion has an AvD of 34 against.."

>Amerlise points at an elegant bone-hilted katana.

>Amerlise says, "That being a falchion.."

>Amerlise says, "They are double leather, and cuirobuilli.."

>Amerlise says, "Blah, sorry..that weather again."

>Amerlise says, "Okay, in this case, the troll was wearing scale armor..."

>Amerlise says, "If you can't LOOK at a critter and see what sort of armor it has on, like, a troll king, a rolton, anything that doesn't wear "armor" per se.."

>Amerlise says, "You can swing a fist at it to tell...a fist has a unique AvD against all 17 armor subgroups."

>Amerlise says, "Now, the damage factor of a falchion vs. the troll's scale leather is 0.250.."

>Amerlise says, "The last number in: AS: +427 vs DS: +62 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +52 = +451"

>Amerlise says, "...is called the success margin."

>Amerlise says, "It's how much you hit the critter by."

>Amerlise says, "To understand how much damage you're doing to a critter, you multiply the success margin - 100 by the damage factor.."

>Amerlise says, "So, we have (451 - 100) * 0.250 = 87.75"

>Amerlise says, "Don't worry, by the way, if not all of this makes sense right off...I'm going to open up for questions after the combat basics."

>Amerlise says, "The number we have there, 87.75 is the raw hit point damage...what you did before flares, weighting, crit damage, or anything else."

>Amerlise says, "To get the crit rank, you add 0.5 to that, and divide by 5, against critters."

>Amerlise says, "Now, for critters against us, different armors protect more..we'll go into that later."

>Amerlise says, "Crit ranks range from 0 - 9, with 0 being the smallest scratch, and 9 being death, decapitation, dismemberment, etc."

>Amerlise says, "So, (87.75 + 0.5) / 5 = 17.65"

>Amerlise says, "So, it's a rank 17 crit...which, of course, isn't possible on a range of 0-9"

>Amerlise says, "That's the first thing determined about crit ranks, before the monster's crit padding, your weapon's crit weighting, or ambush training comes into play."

>Amerlise says, "Once padding, weighting, and ambush have been added in (we'll get to weighting in a moment).."

>Amerlise says, "The combat system looks up the crit rank on a crit table, with the factors of type of damage, rank, and body location."

>Amerlise says, "Type of damage, for weapons, will almost always be puncture, crush, or slash."

>Amerlise says, "Ah, another rumor I've heard.."

>Amerlise says, "Those types of damage are determined by the weapon's base..."

>Amerlise says, "Falchions crush and slash. Broadswords slash and puncture..etc.."

>Amerlise says, "If you ever see a falchion puncture, it's a bug, or it's been renamed from another weapon type."

>Amerlise says, "Moving right along.."

>Amerlise says, "Each specific crit has an amount of damage associated with it. Once the system has looked up the crit, that damage is added in."

>Amerlise says, "The above crit.."Right hip pulped, severing the leg." is a rank 9 crit from the crushing table."

>Amerlise says, "It adds 45 points of damage, stuns and knocks down the critter.."

>Amerlise says, "Which brings the total damage to 133 points, what we saw above."

>Amerlise says, "Okay..I know I jumped around a lot there, so I'm going to give myself and you guys a chance to catch up, and open up for questions, if anyone has any."

>Amerlise just opened the question list for 9 signups.

>Amerlise just opened the question list for 9 signups.

[Lots of folks joining the list.]

>Amerlise says, "Oh, this is also the first time I ever used a list, so..heh. Wish me luck."

>The question list is full and is now closed.

>Amerlise asks, "Okay...Johnaithan?"

>Johnaithan says, "Two questions."

>Johnaithan says, "First, I'm a little confused about the five armor groups you pointed out."

>Amerlise asks, "I sort of whizzed past that, I know...how so?"

>Johnaithan says, "All of them you said sounds right...except one. I've always been told, even by people who have been around a LONG time that the first is "cloth" not "skin"."

>Amerlise says, "Two different names for the same thing.."

>Amerlise says, "Robes, and a complete lack of armor, protect exactly the same, with respect to damage factors.."

>Johnaithan says, "Well, i noticed some clothing CAN be assessed, so..."

>Johnaithan shrugs.

>Amerlise nods to Johnaithan.

>Johnaithan says, "Second question."

>Amerlise says, "Actually, if you've ever seen, say, a DB cloak...they can be assessed to. Little freebie, there."

>Johnaithan says, "You said a falchion can not puncher, but CAN crush."

>Amerlise nods to Johnaithan.

>Amerlise says, "And slash."

>Johnaithan asks, "So why can you not train in blunt and have it work half the time?"

>Johnaithan asks, "Or visa-versa?"

>Amerlise says, "Because, even though it does a similar type of damage, it's still a different fighting style."

>Amerlise says, "Take a rapier and a morning star.."

>Amerlise says, "Both can puncture, but being a master in one, isn't going to teach you much about the other."

>Johnaithan says, "I know that. I ment like a mix of the skills."

>Amerlise says, "Now..weapon damage types are in my personal opinion, a bit limited."

>Amerlise says, "I've heard hundreds of people say, "why can't we just use the blunt end of the war hammer, so it doesn't puncture?""

>Amerlise says, "Well, mebbe not hundreds, but.."

>Amerlise waves her hand in a dismissive gesture.

>Jinesse chuckles at Amerlise.

>Amerlise says, "To that, I have no answer...I didn't design the combat and weapon system.."

>Johnaithan nods.

>Amerlise says, "A falchion DOES have a little pointy tip, if you've ever seen one..you COULD puncture with one."

>Amerlise shrugs.

>Johnaithan asks, "Could I cover one more thing. Back to the first question?"

>Amerlise says, "But you shouldn't see one doing it here."

>Amerlise says, "Sure.."

>Johnaithan says, "You said clothing and skin were the same thing, just different names."

>Amerlise nods to Johnaithan.

>Johnaithan says, "But wearing clothing, does it do ANYTHING better than skin. I'd think there was so one-in-a-million thing there at least."

>Amerlise says, "Some clothing does have advantages of course, like padding.."

>Johnaithan asks, "So there's no difference if I wore a jacket in lue to my bare chest?"

>Amerlise says, "In a completely real situation, there's always a chance that someone's rapier could be caught in your robes, and turned aside.."

>Johnaithan nods.

>Amerlise says, "But, Elanthia's combat really isn't that complicated."

>Johnaithan nods.

>Johnaithan says, "Alright. That's all I have. Thank you."

>Amerlise curtsies to Johnaithan.

>Amerlise asks, "Denzo?"

>Denzo asks, "Lady Amerlise, in this forum will you be further discussing the damage factors of weapons, as I'm rather curious as the the Damage Factors of certain pole-arms and most charts out there don't have everything I'm looking for. Or are you just going to be explaining how the combat system works? And, about how long do you predict we will be in session?"

>Amerlise says, "Hrm, in reverse order...I really don't know how long we'll be here, but I wouldn't put it at over a hour and a half, two tops. There's really not that much info to cover, unless I just start listing damage factors one by one."

>Amerlise says, "And that'd put even more people to sleep."

>Denzo smiles.

>Amerlise says, "I do plan to cover more than just the combat basics, though.."

>Denzo says, "Well.... if they didn't want to hear it.... couldn't..."

>Denzo points at a wooden ladder.

>Denzo asks, "They always leave?"

>Denzo says, "Not like they are captive now"

>Amerlise says, "True enough. With polearms, if you remind me, I'll send you a list of the damage factors."

>Denzo nods to Amerlise.

>Denzo says, "That would be appriciated"

>Amerlise says, "Okay, from the whispers I just got, I'll do this shameless plug.."

>Amerlise says, "If you go to my website, http://users.boone.net/andelas/index.htm"

>Denzo giggles.

>Amerlise says, "There's a list of all the damage factors and AvDs."

>Denzo exclaims, "Yea!"

>Amerlise says, "And they're hopefully even right."

>Amerlise asks, "Anything else, or did I get all your questions?"

>Amerlise cocks her head at Denzo.

>Denzo giggles.

>Denzo says, "You got them all, I beleive"

>Amerlise curtsies to Denzo.

>Amerlise asks, "Hammfist?"

>Amerlise cocks her head at Hammfist.

>Amerlise's jaw drops.

>Amerlise says, "Sorry about that.."

>Hammfist asks, "from what i understand if you have padded armor the monsters crit result is lowered by one for every lvl of padding you have right?"

>Amerlise blushes a nice shade of off-pink.

>Hammfist leans on Amerlise.

>Amerlise says, "Ahh, padding. This isn't technically supposed to be an armor forum, but I'm going to touch on padding when we do weighting.."

>Hammfist says, "and if your weapons got crit weighting then your crit is raised in the same way"

>Amerlise says, "With the assess command, tho, it's a lot easier to see the difference between one merchants layer of padding and another's."

>Amerlise says, "Before that, ten Filifor layers could be twice as many as five Hammerhand layers of padding."

>Amerlise says, "Or half as many, or just the same. Varies."

>Hammfist asks, "these are merchant names?"

>Amerlise says, "Ah, yep. Padders."

>Amerlise nods to Hammfist.

>Amerlise asks, "Lemme finish up these other questions, and we'll move into padding and weighting, 'kay?"

>Hammfist says, "also"

>Hammfist nods.

>Amerlise asks, "Dudgeoncarbeau?"

>Hammfist asks, "does anybody else think quarter staffs should be listed as polearms?"

>Dudgeoncarbeau says, "maybe a stupid question - but is avd a good indicator of df also - especially when comparing two diffent weapons"

>Hammfist sits down.

>Amerlise says, "When comparing two different weapons, no. Not really."

>Amerlise says, "When comparing the same weapon against different types of armor, it can be.."

>Amerlise says, "Lemme find a good example here.."

>(Amerlise rummages.)

>Dudgeoncarbeau asks, "so even thou its avd is ad its damage could be very good?"

>Dudgeoncarbeau says, "err bad"

>Amerlise says, "Okay, put a tiger-claw vs. a falchion.."

>Amerlise says, "Against skin/cloth, the tiger-claw has a higher AvD than a falchion."

>Amerlise says, "But I think we can probably guess that the falchion does significantly more damage."

>Dudgeoncarbeau says, "thanks"

>Amerlise says, "On the other hand, a bastard sword, used one handed.."

>Amerlise says, "Doesn't have particularly good AvDs against plate mail.."

>Amerlise says, "But it does more damage than any other OHE against plate, except a broadsword or a handaxe."

>Amerlise says, "Even though the AvD of the tiger claw is better, the falchion does more damage."

>Amerlise says, "AvDs -are- a loose relation of how much effective the weapon is, against that armor type.."

>Amerlise says, "And they are somewhat comparable to each other.."

>Amerlise says, "But you shouldn't use the AvD as the last word on determining how effective it is."

>Dudgeoncarbeau says, "thanks for the info"

>Amerlise curtsies to Dudgeoncarbeau.

>Amerlise asks, "Anything else?"

>Dudgeoncarbeau says, "no "

>Amerlise asks, "Lonys?"

>Lonys stands up.

>Lonys coughs.

>Lonys says, "Well, now that I consider it...my question seems superficial..."

>Lonys says, "But...."

>Amerlise says, "No such thing, unless you just don't wanna ask it."

>Lonys smiles.

>Lonys says, "When you spoke of rank 9 crushing crits"

>Lonys asks, "You said they stunned, and knocked to the ground, correct?"

>Amerlise says, "Well, that depends on where it hits, and whether they're already stunned or prone, of course."

>Amerlise says, "But for the leg, yes, it should."

>Lonys asks, "You said they stunned, and knocked to the ground, correct?"

>Lonys asks, "I could understand that with a blow to the chest...but would a shot to the arm have the same consequence?"

>Lonys blinks.

>Lonys splutters.

>Lonys says, "thanks"

>Lonys says, "I'll crawl in a corner, now"

>Amerlise grins.

>Lonys sits down.

>Amerlise says, "It's not a bad question. Each crit has specific effects tied to it.."

>Amerlise says, "A damage amount, stuns, knockdowns, or death."

>Lonys asks, "As a crit to the chest can also cause a crit to the back?"

>Amerlise says, "Most of these depend on location and severity."

>Amerlise nods to Lonys.

>Lonys nods.

>Amerlise says, "Some crits, will, in fact hurt two different locations."

>Amerlise says, "There's one head crit that also causes uncontrollable convulsions, for example."

>Lonys smiles.

>Amerlise says, "And one, not sure if it's back or abs, but it hurts both. That sorta thing."

>Amerlise asks, "That clear it up?"

>Lonys nods.

>Amerlise shuffles her feet.

>Lonys says, "thanks bunches"

>Amerlise curtsies to Lonys.

>Amerlise asks, "Aeryus?"

>Aeryus asks, "can you please put the math on one line together?"

>Amerlise grins.

>Amerlise nods.

>Amerlise says, "Lemme toss the hit back out, real quick, first."

>Aeryus nods.

>Amerlise says, "recite You swing an elegant bone-hilted katana at a hill troll!; AS: +427 vs DS: +62 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +52 = +451; ... and hit for 133 points of damage!; Right hip pulped, severing the leg."

>Amerlise coughs.

>Amerlise coughs.

>Amerlise recites:

"You swing an elegant bone-hilted katana at a hill troll!

AS: +427 vs DS: +62 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +52 = +451

... and hit for 133 points of damage!

Right hip pulped, severing the leg."

>Amerlise says, "That's better."

>Amerlise says, "Okay success margin is the last number in the equation.."

>Aeryus nods.

>Amerlise says, "((success margin - 100) * damage factor) + 0.5 = raw health damage"

>Amerlise says, "raw health damage / 5 = raw crit rank"

>Amerlise asks, "That what you wanted?"

>Aeryus says, "kinda, can you place you're numbers in there please"

>Amerlise says, "Sure...in that example.."

>Amerlise says, "((451 [success margin] - 100) * 0.250 [damage factor]) + 0.5 = 87.75 [raw health damage]"

>Amerlise says, "Keep in mind that those numbers, except 100, and 0.5 change with almost every shot."

>Aeryus nods to Amerlise.

>Amerlise asks, "That get it?"

>Aeryus says, "yup, thankee"

>Amerlise says, "You betcha"

>Aeryus says, "one more question please"

>Amerlise says, "Sorry, go ahead."

>Aeryus grins.

>Amerlise blushes a nice shade of off-pink.

>Aeryus asks, "you said that katana was falchion base?"

>Aeryus asks, "what base is a palache?"

>Amerlise says, "Yessir. Most katanas seem to be altered falchions...there is no katana base."

>Aeryus nods to Amerlise.

>Amerlise says, "Honestly, I'd have to play around with one to know."

>Amerlise asks, "Ya got one?"

>Aeryus says, "my son, Bhinky found one..didn't know what base it was though"

>Amerlise nods to Aeryus.

>Amerlise says, "Someone tells me it's a scim base.."

>Aeryus says, "wickedly curved palache"

>Amerlise says, "I'll check it after we're done, if ya like. It takes about three seconds."

Aeryus says, "ok, thankee"

>Aeryus bows to Amerlise.

>Amerlise curtsies to Aeryus.

>Aeryus says, "I done now"

>Aeryus bows to Amerlise.

>Amerlise says, "Movin' right along, then.."

>Amerlise asks, "Regario?"

>Regario grins.

>Regario asks, "thank ya, i was wonderin, were ye goin ta explain the workings of two weapon combat later tonight?"

>Amerlise says, "Yeah, actually we are, a little.."

>Regario asks, "should i wait till then to ask specific things?"

>Amerlise says, "I don't use two weapons, but I did spend some time this past week playing with 'em, figuring some stuff out."

>Regario nods.

>Amerlise asks, "How 'bout if I do those after weighting?"

>Regario says, "sounds good"

>Regario grins.

>Regario says, "dat it"

>Regario smiles.

>Amerlise says, "Okiedoke..it's a date.."

>Amerlise asks, "Coldmist?"

>Coldmist asks, " thank you amerlise my frist list i have ever made !! how many basic weapon one handed edge group are there ? if it is small can you lest them 2.i have seen a lots are diffrent name but do same amount of criting and damage is that right ? like with some waraxe and regular axe or with short sword and longswords ?"

>Amerlise grins.

>Coldmist pants.

>Amerlise says, "Okay..one handed edged.."

>(Amerlise counts.)

>Amerlise says, "Dagger, Main gauche, handaxe, scimitar, falchion, broadsword, rapier, short sword, longsword, backsword, estoc, and occasionally the bastard sword."

>Amerlise says, "That's..11 1/2."

>Amerlise says, "Bastard swords are tricky. They just got their own base in the past year.."

>Amerlise says, "Newer ones like you can buy in the clearing north of the gate, are their own base."

>Amerlise says, "The hand-and-a-half swords the greater ancient mummies on Teras dropped last year are part greatsword, part broadsword, I believe."

>Amerlise says, "Now, with waraxes, handaxes, hatchets, etc.."

>Amerlise says, "Yes, if it's one-handed, it counts as a handaxe."

>Amerlise says, "There are some confusingly named waraxes that are two handed, and those are, of course, their own class."

>Amerlise says, "And thanks to vruul, I know they hurt worse than a onehanded one."

>Amerlise says, "But special abilities aside, like critting, enchants, flares, etc, a rolaren waraxe and a small hatchet are the same."

>Amerlise says, "A short sword and longsword, however, are too completely different weapon bases."

>Amerlise says, "If you see a poignard or a gladius, it's probably a short sword.."

>Coldmist asks, " well you be get in to redux and how it effect critting if any ?"

>Amerlise says, "Yipes, probably not redux."

>Amerlise says, "I will say, redux doesn't directly affect crit ranks."

>Amerlise says, "Since we already talked about damage factors, it does sort of fit. Redux is a multiplier to the damage factor of the weapon used against you.."

>Amerlise says, "The lower the number, the better, and it does exactly what it sounds like.."

>Amerlise says, "Damage factor reduction, which makes you take less raw health damage, which in turn lowers the crit rank."

>Amerlise says, "But, afraid I won't be getting into the actual mechanics of it...the warrior Mentors are going to have a forum specifically abotu redux, I believe."

>Coldmist says, "i know ds score ins base after main armor you chest but if you only where a breast plate and no leg cover and somer one ambush you there dose the asg drop to skin "

>Coldmist says, "sorry "

>Amerlise says, "If I understand what you're asking, the main armor type, what you wear on your torso, is what affects damage factor."

>Amerlise says, "Say, I usually wear cuirob..cuirob..rigid leather.."

>Amerlise says, "But it doesn't cover legs or head.."

>Coldmist says, " yes "

>Coldmist says, " i wear "

>Coldmist taps Hoturiko lightly on his shoulder.

>Amerlise says, "If I take a shot to the leg, not wearing leg guards, then the damage factor is still that weapon vs. rigid leather."

>Amerlise asks, "Kapish?"

>Amerlise says, "On the other hand, if I wear robes, but wear steel leg guards, then a shot to the leg wouldn't be protected as if against plate."

>Amerlise says, "Besides which, I'd look silly."

>Amerlise says, "Good question.."

>Amerlise nods to Valkkrye.

>Amerlise says, "Say your armor is padded, but doesn't cover your legs...like mine."

>Amerlise says, "If you don't wear leg guards, then the padding doesn't help your legs.."

>Amerlise says, "If you do, then the padding of the armor extends to the legs, because they're protected by armor."

>Amerlise says, "It sounds odd, I know."

>Coldmist says, " what the point of wear full coverage then "

>Amerlise says, "Also, if the part of your body that's hit isn't covered by armor, supposedly the crit rank is raised one."

>Coldmist taps a chain hauberk.

>Amerlise says, "That's a rumor I've never been able to verify, one way or the other."

>Coldmist says, " i dey 995 time from crit not blood "

>Amerlise says, "If anyone knows, i.e. has seen a post by Cyper, Mikos, Ophion, etc, saying beyond the shadow of a doubt that that's true, I'd love to know about it."

>Amerlise says, "Wearing 'accessories' such as greaves, with full coverage, is useless. Just adds weight."

>Coldmist says, "ok thanks"

>Amerlise says, "About full coverage.."

>Amerlise says, "The main advantages are, a.) it usually weighs less than partial and accessories.."

>Amerlise says, "b.) better AvD. The main armor type controls AvD, greaves are ignored.."

>Amerlise says, "c.) and better CvA for the same reasons."

>Amerlise says, "For those of you with low warding, like me, that can be a consideration."

>Amerlise says, "I should just leave you unsilenced, Khenny, you have good questions."

>Amerlise says, "Khenny whispers, "unless your a spell caster, in which case you get full body protection, with little or no spell hinderance?""

>Amerlise says, "This is, unfortunately, wrong...but it's an excellent point."

>Amerlise says, "Wearing greaves or a helm with partial coverage armor WILL raise the hindrance.."

>Amerlise says, "If you wear light leather, it only covers torso.."

>Amerlise says, "If you wear light leather and a helm, it leaves your arms and legs uncovered, but you get the hindrance of double leather, full coverage."

>Amerlise says, "Dunno how many waggler types are in here, but there ya go."

>Amerlise says, "Okay..one more question, then we move on to weighting."

>Amerlise says, "You've been holding this question a while..."

>Coldmist says, " yes"

>Amerlise says, "Another good point, while Hoturiko composes his thoughts.."

>Amerlise says, "Wearing accessories also forces the armor to the higher AsG for purposes of RT adder."

>Amerlise says, "If you wear light leather and a helm, you'd get the same armor penalties as if you wore double leather."

>Amerlise asks, "Hoturiko? Ya fall asleep?"

>Amerlise cocks her head at Hoturiko.

>Amerlise says, "Rujero whispers, "does this include clothing type armors?""

>Amerlise says, "No, clothing type armors have no RT adder or spell hindrance, so adding a helm won't add any."

>Amerlise says, "Okay, think he's asleep."

>Amerlise says, "Okay.."

>Amerlise says, "Moving along to weighting.."

>Amerlise says, "Feel free, by the way, to whisper to Jinesse or Colbrand. They're here to help, too. :)"

>Jinesse grins.

>Jinesse waves.

>Colbrand blushes a nice shade of off-pink.

>Amerlise says, "If you have whispered to me, and I haven't replied, it's not for lack of love. I'm just gettin' lots of whispers."

>Amerlise says, "Okay! Weighting."

>Colbrand says, "What I don't know I can lie about very convincingly"

>Colbrand ducks his head.

>Jinesse chuckles at Colbrand.

>Amerlise says, "We'll start with assess, and the assess ratings."

>Amerlise says, "Unfortunately, and much to my annoyance, only warriors with a good number of trainings can see the rating of padding or weighting."

>Amerlise says, "No offense to you fiters out there, of course."

>Amerlise says, "Padding and weighting follow a standardized scale now...from worst to best, this is the list I have, thanks to Nanna and Cemb's help."

>Amerlise says, "Lightly, fairly, somewhat, decently, heavily, very heavily, exceptionally, masterfully, incredibly."

>Amerlise says, "We'll start with damage weighting, since that's so much easier.."

>Amerlise says, "Damage weighting adds a specific amount of health damage per shot, regardless of weapon type, armor type, or anything else.."

>Amerlise says, "The only thing that will change whether or not damage weighting adds its damage, is if you crit-kill the monster."

>Amerlise says, "The damage from damage weighting is added in after the crit rank is determined, and on a death crit, it never gets that far."

>Amerlise says, "That's neither here nor there."

>Amerlise waves her hand in a dismissive gesture.

>Amerlise says, "If you have your weapon assessed, and are told the amount of damage weighting on it, here's the corresponding damage amounts.."

>Amerlise says, "Lightly, 1-2, fairly, 3-4, somewhat. 5-6, decently, 7-8, heavil 9-10, very heavily 11-12, exceptionally 15, masterfully 20, and incredibly at or around 30"

>Amerlise says, "So, if you have an opaque vultite falchion, have it assessed, and are told it's heavily damage weighted, that falchion adds 9-10 points per hit."

>Amerlise says, "That number won't actually fluctuate with a particular weapon, by the way."

>Amerlise says, "It'll be either 9, or it'll be 10."

>Amerlise says, "But each assessment rating describes a range, much like lockpick modifiers."

>Amerlise says, "Now, crit weighting has always been harder for me to nail down, until these ratings.."

>Amerlise says, "Oops, before we move on, I want to address this whisper."

>Amerlise says, "The whisper was, and you know who you are.. :)"

>Amerlise says, "So you can have like 30 ranks of damage weighting on blades...are they just real rare or somethin'..I thought 10x was the max or somethin'.."

>Amerlise says, "10x, 3x, 137*pi*4x all those mean pretty much nothing, for weighting, or padding."

>Amerlise says, "The reason people started scaling weighting that way.."

>Amerlise says, "Is that we never used to have any other scale to go buy, except what individual merchants told us."

>(Amerlise blames it on the merchants.)

>Amerlise says, "If, by some freak chance of nature, you managed to make a weighting or especially padding list.."

>Amerlise says, "Many of them offered their services by "layers"..."

>Amerlise says, "Five layers of padding, ten layers of padding, etc. Now.."

>Amerlise says, "These DO describe a certain amount of padding. The merchant was almost certainly not back there rolling dice to see how many layers you got."

>Amerlise says, "But, unfortunately, even among the padders and weighters, there was no standardization.."

>Amerlise says, "As I mentioned earlier, one merchants "10 layers of padding" could be less desirable than another merchants 'three layers'."

>Amerlise says, "To sum that, if someone tries to sell you a 3x critted broadsword, get it assessed, so you know what they have."

>Amerlise says, "In theory, incredibly is the highest rating I've heard."

>Amerlise says, "Claidhmores, by the way, go off the scale. Something that should please you two handers."

>Amerlise says, "Hee...so many whispers..okay..in order.."

>Amerlise says, "Yes, warriors, I'm not sure, and warriors."

>Amerlise says, "Warriors are the only ones who can tell how many ranks of weighting or padding there are."

>Amerlise says, "Anyone can assess. You need skill in the item, and some age, to get the best info."

>Amerlise says, "But you still won't be able to learn much beyond what type of weapon it is (edged, blunt, one handed or two), or for armor, what body parts it covers and what type of armor it is."

>Amerlise says, "That is, chain, plate, rigid leather, etc."

>Amerlise says, "I'm gonna lose my place, guys. I'll reopen for questions in a few.."

>Amerlise says, "Okay, repeating the damage weighting scale.."

>Amerlise says, "Lightly, 1-2, fairly, 3-4, somewhat. 5-6, decently, 7-8, heavil 9-10, very heavily 11-12, exceptionally 15, masterfully 20, and incredibly at or around 30"

>Amerlise says, "Crit weighting refers to this scale, also, but only similarly."

>Amerlise asks, "Remember how we found the raw health damage, and then found the raw crit rank by dividing by five?"

>Amerlise says, "The way crit weighting works is.."

>Amerlise says, "It also 'adds damage', but invisibly. It either:"

>Amerlise says, "a.) adds it, before the crit rank is figured, in the form of 'invisible health points' used only to calculate the crit rank, then removed.."

>Amerlise says, "Or b.) uses the same scale as damage weighting, but divides those numbers you saw by 5, and adds directly to the crit rank."

>Amerlise says, "I know that's not incredibly well explained, so let me give a few examples."

>Amerlise says, "Take that same opaque vultite falchion, that was heavily damage weighted, adding 10 points of damage per hit."

>Amerlise says, "Now, imagine that it was exactly the same amount of crit weighting, instead."

>Amerlise says, "That means that if you go by version a.) it adds 10 hp to the raw hp damage.."

>Amerlise says, "Which is then divided by 5, yielding an added two crit ranks."

>Amerlise says, "Or, if you prefer version b.)"

>Amerlise says, "Then instead of adding 10 hp per shot like heavy damage weighting would.."

>Amerlise says, "You divide the scale by 5, for crit ranks.."

>Amerlise says, "And a heavily crit weighting item adds 2 crit ranks.."

>Amerlise says, "Claidhmores, by comparison.."

>Amerlise says, "Well...I honestly couldn't say how crit weighted a claidhmore is, but I could swear I've seen them add 8 or 9 crit ranks."

>Amerlise says, "They're beasts. If someone tells you their katana is a one-handed claidhmore, laugh in their face."

>Colbrand chuckles.

>Amerlise says, "There's really no difference between the two ways crit weighting work, to my knowledge."

>Amerlise says, "They both give the same result...I'm just not certain where it's added into the equation."

>Amerlise says, "Oh, and claidhmores are naturally crit weighted, for who just mentioned that."

>Amerlise says, "They're beasts because they're crit weighted. Otherwise, they'd be hardly better than a two handed sword."

>Amerlise says, "If you see a blessable claidhmore, like the ones some reivers carry, they're not a true weighted claidhmore."

>Amerlise says, "There are SOME claidhmores out there with extra weighting."

>Amerlise shudders.

>Amerlise says, "Okay..I'm going to reopen for questions..I get the feeling there are one or two."

>Amerlise just opened the question list for 40 signups.

[Lots of signups for the list.]

>Amerlise says, "Stupid random list. I never can figure out why it only does nine or forty questions."

>Amerlise says, "Oh...sorry...if you don't know, it's <join list> to sign up."

>Amerlise says, "You woke up. :D"

>Amerlise waves to Hoturiko.

>Amerlise says, "I'm going to get Hoturiko's first...he's had it a long time."

>Hoturiko says, " Sorry bout that"

>Hoturiko says, " My cquestion for the floor and fer you Lady Amerlise is..."

>Hoturiko says, " I have been hunting sometimes... and ambushed a creature.."

>Hoturiko says, " Severing its right leg"

>Hoturiko says, " and not have it stunn nor fall"

>Amerlise says, "Ah, yes. I had actually forgotten the question.."

>Amerlise blushes a nice shade of off-pink.

>Hoturiko says, " Just the next round to go and sever the left leg"

>Amerlise says, "Okay, that's really partially going to depend on the critter."

>Hoturiko says, " And still it doesnt fall"

>Amerlise says, "Some critters, like mammoth arachnids..um..troll kings..major spiders, maybe.."

>Hoturiko says, " The ccreature i have had this happen to alot is Silverback orcs"

>Amerlise says, "Anyway, some critters, you just can't stun with a weapon, and even some stun spells."

>Amerlise says, "Ah, now silverback orcs, I would think you could stun."

>Hoturiko says, "I can"

>Hoturiko says, " and fer the most part i do"

>Hoturiko says, " but there are those cases in which severing thier legs doesnt cuase them to fall"

>Amerlise says, "There are a couple of leg crits that will sever the leg, and not make the critter fall."

>Amerlise says, "I'll be honest, with the amount of ambush training I have, I pretty much always get a rank 9 crit.."

>Amerlise says, "But after I started hunting fire mages..well, you can't always hide in there."

>Amerlise says, "There are only certain rooms you can hide in."

>Hoturiko asks, " So how can ya have a silverback orc go hovering?"

>Amerlise says, "And so I have to fight toe-to-toe a lot. And noticed that there is a leg crit that will sever, without knocking down."

>Hoturiko says, " I mean if the legs are gone they should automatically fall"

>Amerlise asks, "What sort of weapon do you use?"

>Hoturiko removes a wickedly sharp handaxe from in his leather back sheath.

>Hoturiko waves a wickedly sharp handaxe around.

>Hoturiko smiles.

>Hoturiko deftly twirls his sharp handaxe around his finger and stuffs it in his leather back sheath. Fancy!

>Amerlise says, "Unfortunately, when I made my crit tables, I didn't note which crits will knock the critter down, just which ones stun it."

>Hoturiko says, " just my handaxe"

>Amerlise asks, "Is it possible you're doing enough smaller wounds to it, that they compound into a severed leg?"

>Hoturiko nods.

>Amerlise says, "Ah..okay.."

>Amerlise says, "The stun/knockdown is tied into specific crits.."

>Amerlise says, "If you break its leg twice, and it ends up severed, that's not the same as a crit that severs it in one shot."

>Amerlise says, "Just the same, I -would- think that when its leg goes, it falls."

>Hoturiko asks, " But still shouldnt it count like that?"

>Amerlise says, "And most shots that break a leg will also stun. I'm not especially familiar with silverbacks.."

>Amerlise says, "And Marikhen tells me reivers do something similar.."

>Hoturiko says, " another thing i also noticed.."

>Amerlise nods to Hoturiko.

>Hoturiko says, " Some creatures will get hurt in a non existant body part"

>Amerlise asks, "How do you mean?"

>Hoturiko says, " Like Pumas up in the shambler area of Icemule"

>Amerlise leans against a wooden ladder.

>Amerlise cocks her head at Hoturiko.

>Hoturiko asks, " I have severed and stunned their shield arms?"

>Amerlise says, "Oh.."

>Amerlise waves her hand in a dismissive gesture.

>Amerlise says, "That's generic crit messaging."

>Hoturiko says, " When did pumas start using shields"

>Amerlise says, "Monastic liches in the monestary over that way.."

>Amerlise points east.

>Amerlise says, "If you describe one, they have no heart, just a hole in their chest, where they tore out their own heart.."

>Amerlise says, "But I've seen one have its heart knocked out the back."

>Amerlise shrugs.

>Amerlise says, "Just generic crit messages from the same crit tables."

>Hoturiko asks, " They dont make unique tables per different types of creatureass?"

>Amerlise looks over at Hoturiko and shakes her head.

>Amerlise says, "Afraid not.."

>Amerlise says, "Magru in the broken lands spit acid.."

>Amerlise says, "And if it hits you, it uses the same crit message table that wizards' minor acid and crystal wands do."

>Amerlise says, "If you fall off a mountainside, it usually uses the same crits that you'll see with mana disrupt.."

>Amerlise says, "Because both tend to use impact crits."

>Amerlise says, "Now, a lot of critters, like pumas, you'll see do things like lick their paws when injured.."

>Amerlise says, "Or trolls, fall to the ground screaming and grasping their mangled legs."

>Hoturiko asks, " Do you think that they ever change these things?"

>Amerlise says, "That messaging is tied into the critter, not from the crit tables."

>Amerlise says, "Honestly, probably not soon. :)"

>Hoturiko says, " Ok"

>Hoturiko says, " Another question as far as critting goes"

>Hoturiko says, " I was hunting in the artic manticores last evening"

>Amerlise says, "Okay..we need to start moving faster, tho, on the whole."

>Amerlise nods to Hoturiko.

>Hoturiko says, " And was attacked by a arctic manticore.."

>Hoturiko says, " I was only dealt one damage.."

>Hoturiko says, " yet stunned fer 6 rounds"

>Hoturiko asks, " How does that work?"

>Amerlise asks, "Because of the cold flares in its claw?"

>Hoturiko asks, " But doesnt damage inflicted decide stun rounds?"

>Amerlise says, "Flares also use the same crit messaging as whatever element they're tied to."

>Amerlise says, "No...the crit ranks determine that."

>Amerlise shakes her head.

>Amerlise says, "But flares and maneuver attacks are funny about that, anyway."

>Amerlise says, "If you ever get up to Pinefar and hunt glacei.."

>Amerlise says, "They kill a lot of people by throwing ice chunks...it's a maneuver attack.."

>Amerlise says, "And it often as not only does 1 point of damage, but still death crits people."

>Amerlise says, "Why? I couldn't say."

>Hoturiko asks, " Is that how clouds sometimes kill people?"

>Amerlise says, "Spell crit tables do still use crit tables..so do flares, and just about everything else that does damage to you."

>Amerlise says, "The crit tables just vary."

>Hoturiko nods to Amerlise.

>Hoturiko says, " Well thats all my questions.. Thank you fer your time"

>Amerlise says, "Fireballs use the flame table, magru spit uses acid, um...minor water uses the impact table, and I think one other."

>Amerlise curtsies to Hoturiko.

>Hoturiko bows to Amerlise.

>Amerlise exclaims, "Okay..Marikhen!"

>Amerlise leans against a question list.

>Amerlise says, "I keep doing that."

>Marikhen says, "justa couple questions"

>Amerlise slaps herself on the forehead.

>Marikhen says, "dun worry"

>Marikhen says, "got it friday night"

>Marikhen grins.

>Amerlise grins.

>Marikhen says, "if you got padded light leather"

>Amerlise says, "Glad I'm not the only ditz with her hands on a list."

>Marikhen says, "and wearing arm and leg greaves extends coverage to your arms and legs"

>Marikhen asks, "what about your neck?"

>Marikhen says, "I've noticed hauberk and plate cover your neck"

>Marikhen taps some supple black hunting leathers.

>Amerlise asks, "Pray you don't get hit there?"

>Marikhen says, "double leather doesn't."

>Marikhen chuckles.

>Marikhen says, "I don't"

>Marikhen taps a blood red helm.

Amerlise says, "Light leather doesn't cover neck. Double does."

>Marikhen says, "that does"

>Marikhen says, "mine doesn't"

>Marikhen says, "I assessed it as head, torso, arms, and legs"

>Amerlise says, "I've seen a post from..Ophion, I think? It said, "Full coverage means full coverage""

>Amerlise nods to Marikhen.

>Marikhen nods.

>Amerlise says, "Neck is included in that, with actual armor."

>Marikhen says, "next question"

>Amerlise takes a burnished silver Andelas circlet off her head.

>Amerlise examines the circlet closely, trying to determine how well it protects.

>Marikhen says, "you compared the 10 damage from damage weighting table to 2 crit ranks for heavy crit weighting"

>Marikhen asks, "was that just a pure example or is that actually close?"

Amerlise says, "Yessir."

>Amerlise says, "Oh, for damage weighting, that's right on. For crit weighting, that's my best estimate, and the scale seems to work with various crit weighted weapons I've been testing."

>Amerlise puts a burnished silver Andelas circlet on her head.

>Marikhen nods.

>Amerlise says, "The problem with crit weighting, is that it's less.."

>Marikhen says, "so incredibaly crit weighted *could* add 6 ranks, if yer lucky"

>Amerlise works her fingers under her silver Andelas circlet and scratches her head.

>Amerlise says, "Less -exact- than damage weighting."

>Rhey whispers, "Heh. Look me up when I learn the spell. Remind me that I promised you a few castings of the Enchant Item spell. :>"

>Marikhen chuckles.

>Marikhen says, "I hear that"

>Amerlise says, "The assessment ratings for both describe a range, but with damage weighting, it's SO much easier to nail down the exact number."

>Marikhen says, "back-shot to a reiver in heavy chain armor of 120, it lives"

>Marikhen says, "119 to one in half plate kills it"

>Marikhen nods to Amerlise.

>Amerlise says, "And yeah...theoretically, an incredibly crit weighted weapon would add six ranks.."

>Amerlise says, "I've never seen one, but I've never seen Kali's warblade assessed."

>Amerlise says, "Her warblade, by the way, is only six enchants. It can't be enchanted any higher, because of the amount of crit weighting on it."

>Marikhen chuckles.

>Amerlise says, "Mebbe five enchants. Not honestly sure of the exact number."

>Marikhen says, "sounds nice"

>Marikhen taps an acid-stained roleran espadon.

>Marikhen says, "think I'll stick with my fancy bastardsword though"

>Marikhen says, "my final question fer now"

>Amerlise says, "Jinesse was kind enough to loan me a few weapons, since the only crit weighted one I have is the katana.."

>Amerlise says, "And we had them all assessed, and that scale stood up with all of them."

>Marikhen asks, "was one a shimmering vultite longsword?"

>Amerlise says, "Nope.."

>Amerlise shakes her head.

>Marikhen says, "I sold one to a friend of mine and it was assessed at somewhat"

>Marikhen says, "think they're supposed to be heavy at least, but..."

>Amerlise says, "Any crit weighting is better than none. ;)"

>Marikhen shrugs.

>Amerlise says, "Unless you're hunting undead."

>Marikhen says, "actually"

>Amerlise asks, "Okay...that final question?"

>Marikhen asks, "do you know if they plan to fix arms anytime in the future?"

>Marikhen says, "I don't know about anyone else here,"

>Amerlise works her fingers under her silver Andelas circlet and scratches her head.

>Marikhen says, "but I find it unnerving to cut off a hand from a severed arm and see the previous owner take damage from it"

>Amerlise says, "Ahhh."

>Marikhen says, "it also present play problems when you can't attack a limb blown off with limb disrupt"

>Marikhen winks.

>Marikhen says, "I know the GMs applied a new injury system to us players about 6 or 7 months ago"

>Marikhen says, "but I have yet to see any signs of it getting stretched over to applicable critters"

>Amerlise says, "There is an arm crit that will take the hand with it, but, well..it IS sort of silly."

>Amerlise says, "Unfortunately, it's not really anything I can answer."

>Marikhen says, "aye, I've managed that once or twice with a falchion"

>Marikhen nods to Amerlise.

>Amerlise says, "The combat system here is far from perfect...even the GMs say so."

>Marikhen chuckles.

>Amerlise says, "But rewriting it would be a HUGE undertaking."

>Jinesse says, "Keep in mind, we're players too. :) We don't have special access to future plans."

>Jinesse grins.

>Marikhen says, "aye"

>Rhey whispers, "And ye call yerselves rogues? ;>"

>Amerlise says, "They'd basically have to rewrite 95% of the game code, because so many things touch the combat system in one way or another."

>Marikhen says, "but I don't hear *everything*"

>Marikhen says, "my mouth kin drown out a lot of things."

>Marikhen grins.

>Amerlise begins chuckling at Marikhen.

>Colbrand nods to Amerlise.

>Marikhen says, "okay, think that's all of'em fer now"

>Amerlise says, "All done? We need to definitely move quicker, or we'll be here until Tuesday."

>Amerlise nods to Marikhen.

>Amerlise curtsies to Marikhen.

>Marikhen says, "guess I'll have to worry about the armless boxing warf"

>Colbrand chuckles.

>Jinesse chuckles.

>Amerlise asks, "Valkkrye?"

>Valkkrye asks, "how does training in ambush affect the critt rank?"

>Amerlise says, "It's skill bonus-based. Take your skill bonus.."

>Amerlise says, "If you aim the shot, divide it by 20, and it adds that, directly to the crit rank."

>Valkkrye says, "also,...."

>Amerlise says, "If you just <attack critter> from hiding, divide by 10. Twice as effective, but less sure to hit somewhere useful."

>Valkkrye asks, "i can understand that warriors may be the only ones to assess how much weighting something has, but shouldn't other classes with training in that item be able to even detect if it is weight or padded?"

>Amerlise says, "If you aren't hidden, no crit rank bonus, by the way."

>Amerlise says, "Well, -I- certainly think so, but it wasn't my choice."

>Amerlise says, "Bards can tell the presence of weighting or padding, through loresinging.."

>Valkkrye nods.

>Amerlise says, "But only warriors, so far as I know, can tell through assess."

>Amerlise removes a jet black armor from in her gold-threaded pack.

>Amerlise examines the armor closely, trying to determine how well it protects.

>Valkkrye asks, "and the crystal at ai, correct?"

>Amerlise says, "Ayep! Good point, that too."

>Valkkrye nods.

>Valkkrye says, "that's all"

>Amerlise says, "I sure can't see any padding on this, although I know it is."

>Valkkrye grins.

>Amerlise says, "But I'm not exactly bursting with armor training, which does matter."

>Valkkrye says, "that bites"

>Amerlise grins.

>Amerlise says, "I agree."

>Amerlise put a jet black armor in her gold-threaded pack.

>Amerlise curtsies to Valkkrye.

>Amerlise asks, "Dudgeoncarbeau?"

>Dudgeoncarbeau says, "three things if i might - if i want a warrior to give me a good read on my weapon/armor how old does he need to be and 2)any chance you might give us an idea how combat manu effects crits and 3)cannot thank you enough for the time and info"

>Amerlise says, "In 3, 1, 2 order, You're very welcome, and in case I forget later, thank you all very much for coming."

>Amerlise says, "To get an accurate assessment...mind you, I can't assess well enough to be useful to a rat.."

>Amerlise says, "But from what I've seen, the warrior needs to be well-trained in the type of item, and be at least 50 trainings."

>Amerlise says, "That's by NO means the be all, end all."

>Amerlise says, "I have seen warriors not much more than 35 or 40 get an accurate assessment of weighting and padding.."

>Amerlise says, "But it took them a good number of attempts."

>Amerlise says, "It's not an automatic thing.., as in, you're singled in the item's training, and have 50 trainings, ergo, you get the info."

>Amerlise says, "There's a hidden roll, and age and skill training affect it."

>Amerlise says, "Two good questions from the audience, there.."

>Amerlise says, "As far as I know, an item won't "lie" to a warrior (or anyone assessing)."

>Amerlise says, "They might get no info at all, but I've never heard of one giving false info to someone too young to get an accurate reading."

>Amerlise says, "Ah, right, I missed the middle part of your question. CM."

>Amerlise says, "Knew I was forgetting something."

>Amerlise says, "Okay, CM doesn't directly do anything to raise the crit rank, which I think is what you're asking."

>Dudgeoncarbeau says, "yes"

>Amerlise says, "Not like ambush, which figures directly into it, when you attack from hiding."

>Amerlise says, "CM will, if you aren't hiding, help you aim your shots."

>Michaellangello adds his name to the question list.

>Amerlise says, "Aside from that, the only way it really figures into crit ranks is that it raises your AS."

>Dudgeoncarbeau says, "thanks again for your time and answers"

>Amerlise says, "Oh, hee...thanks, Neokume. I should have addressed this at the beginning.."

>Amerlise curtsies to Dudgeoncarbeau.

>Amerlise says, "And thank you."

>Amerlise says, "Okay, just to clear this up, which I forgot to earlier.. :)"

>Amerlise says, "Neither Jinesse, Colbrand, nor I know anything about a.) the rogue guild, or b.) what the GMs have planned for ambush."

>Amerlise says, "Assuming they even DO have anything planned for ambush. All I've heard is players talking, really."

>Jinesse nods to Amerlise.

>Amerlise begins chuckling at Dudgeoncarbeau.

>Jinesse says, "That's all I've heard as well, talking."

>Amerlise asks, "Moragol?"

>Amerlise says, "And thanks again, everyone, for your patience so far."

>Moragol recites:

"I have 3 questions.

1 how does elemental (from say a e-blade) fit into the works?

Does Elementl Bolt (water bolt) attacks work same as weapon for damaging and critting?

Any idea what the damage facter is on a lonsword and a broadsword? "

>Amerlise says, "Two separate people just whispered, btw, that Banthis posted that he was evaluating ambush. He doesn't have specific plans for it, yet."

>Amerlise says, "If we do hear of definite changes, rest assured that once it's decided, we'll almost certainly hold a forum on that, if the GMs don't."

>Amerlise says, "Okay, Moragol..lessee.."

>Amerlise says, "In order.."

>Amerlise says, "Elemental blade itself, doesn't affect much. It adds to the enchant of a weapon, temporarily."

>Amerlise says, "Elemental flares on weapons DO have varying levels of damage. They're not decided the same way as the actual weapon damage and crit ranks are.."

>Amerlise says, "They do have their own crit ranks, and messaging and damage, from the elemental damage tables."

>Amerlise says, "But how those ranks are chosen for each time it flares...well, I honestly couldn't say."

>Amerlise says, "I suspect it's semi-random, with certain penalties and bonuses depending on specific critters."

>Amerlise says, "Most people have seen how susceptible to fire some trolls, and frost giants, are."

>Amerlise says, "That sort of thing."

>Amerlise says, "But the flares themselves are a different entity than the weapon's base damage."

>Amerlise says, "Elemental bolts.."

>Rhey whispers, "Ah, I see."

>Amerlise says, "Elemental bolts work very similarly to weapons, actually."

>Amerlise says, "They have their own AvD and damage factor tables.."

>Amerlise asks, "Although it's possibly called something besides AvD, isn't it?"

>Amerlise raises her smeared scroll and gestures.

Sparks begin to fly between the smeared scroll and Amerlise's fingers.

With a sudden burst of enthusiasm, the sparks jump into Amerlise's hand and she seems to glow with power.

>Amerlise says, "Stand up, Jinesse.."

>Jinesse stands back up.

>Amerlise gestures at you.

Amerlise hurls a roaring ball of fire at you!

AS: -75 vs DS: +80 with AvD: +44 + d100 roll: +33 = -78

A clean miss.

>Amerlise says, "Nope, AvD. Okay."

>Amerlise put a smeared scroll in her black vest.

>Jinesse grins.

>Jinesse sits down.

>Amerlise says, "Now you all know that I can't throw a fireball to save my life."

>Amerlise blushes a nice shade of off-pink.

>Jinesse leans on Amerlise.

>Amerlise says, "Anyway, yes, elemental bolts work exactly how I described weapon combat.."

>Amerlise exclaims, "Except!"

>Amerlise says, "They have their own crit tables, for the most part."

>Moragol nods.

>Amerlise says, "Just like a falchion will draw on the slash and crush tables.."

>Amerlise says, "major shock will use the electricity tables, minor water uses the impact table.."

>Amerlise says, "Warding spells use these too, while we're on the subject."

>Amerlise says, "Elemental blast, 415, uses the puncture table for its crits.."

>Amerlise says, "Eblast, 409, uses the crush table. 702 uses the impact table...unbalance (110) uses the grapple table."

>Amerlise says, "Which is why it's so weak."

>Amerlise snickers.

>Amerlise says, "Oh...thanks, Marikhen..so I did."

>Amerlise says, "Sorry, I meant elemental strike, 415, uses the puncture table."

>Amerlise says, "And eblast uses crush."

>Amerlise says, "If you use estrike on a critter immune to punctures, like a mammoth arachnid, the initial conncussion damage will be done, but the added crit damage won't."

>Amerlise says, "The initial concussion damage is part of that spell...not part of the puncture crit table."

>Amerlise says, "Okay, part three of yours.."

>Moragol smiles at Amerlise.

>Amerlise says, "DFs for a longsword and broadsword? Yep.."

>Amerlise says, "I'd have to look them up, to be honest. The only ones I know by heart are the falchion ones, since that's what I use."

>Amerlise nods to Marikhen.

>Amerlise says, "What he said.."

>Amerlise points at Marikhen.

>Amerlise says, "A broadsword has higher damage factors than a longsword.."

>Amerlise says, "Across the board."

>Amerlise blushes a nice shade of off-pink.

>Amerlise says, "She."

>Amerlise curtsies to Marikhen.

>Amerlise says, "A longsword has mostly higher AvDs, but the broadsword will do slightly better damage."

>Amerlise asks, "That answer 'em all?"

>Amerlise cocks her head at Moragol.

>Moragol says, "thankyou, yes"

>Amerlise says, "Okiedoke.."

>Amerlise asks, "Ariol?"

>Amerlise says, "This list is doin' some funny things to me. Hopefully, it won't skip anyone."

>Amerlise says, "If it does, it's the list's fault, not mine. Really."

>Amerlise asks, "You in there?"

>Amerlise cocks her head at Ariol.

>Amerlise says, "Hum. We'll come back to ya...whisper to me when you wake up."

>Amerlise asks, "Kolatai?"

>Kolatai asks, "my questio is a simple one i think...Will the rules for combat be the same in platnum?"

>Kolatai smiles.

>Amerlise says, "I didn't sign up for platinum, and I haven't been following it super-closely, but, I can say yes."

>Amerlise says, "With a couple of side issues, they will be."

>Kolatai says, "one other question "

>Amerlise says, "The GMs have said that any major changes will be effected in both lands, if either."

>Amerlise says, "And combat falls under 'major change'."

>Amerlise says, "However, I believe if you lose a hand there, you might drop yer item, and if you die, you definitely drop your stuff."

>**** You may now leave the game and stay on the question list.

**** You MUST be back before your turn, however.

>Kolatai asks, "does Ambush training have the same effect with a non weighted weapon as with a damage weighted weapon?"

>Amerlise nods to Kolatai.

>Amerlise says, "It does indeed.."

>Amerlise says, "In fact, some people who are well trained in ambush prefer damage weighting over crit weighting, for just that reason.."

>Amerlise says, "Their ambush training already gives them as much crit weighting as they need, so they opt for extra damage."

>Amerlise says, "I don't come from that school of thought, but that's neither here nor there. Damage weighting is tied to the weapon, not the person, and his/her skills."

>Kolatai asks, "for non padded creatures 180 would guarantee a level 9 crit?"

>Kolatai says, "from hiding"

>Amerlise says, "If aimed, from hiding, yes.."

>Amerlise says, "But.."

>Amerlise says, "This isn't really an ambush forum, but this is important."

>Amerlise says, "Ambush does NOT max out at 180."

>Amerlise says, "Not. Not, not, not, does not...can't stress that enough. Never stop training in it.."

>Kolatai says, "i realize that there are padded creatures or creatures with armor"

>Amerlise says, "They're already talking about changing it, and even if it's just talk, you never know what they'll do to ambush in the future, and it's what makes a rogue."

>Kolatai nods.

>Kolatai says, "ok thanks"

>Amerlise says, "For the record, that's stopping ambush = (not*12)^2"

>Amerlise winks at Pipathayne.

>Amerlise curtsies to Kolatai.

>Amerlise asks, "That answer all yours?"

>Kolatai nods.

>Amerlise exclaims, "Okay...Lympyc!"

>Lympyc smiles.

>Lympyc says, "hi"

>Amerlise exclaims, "Hiya!"

>Lympyc says, "ok...i think you just banned my two question but i'll shoot em out anyhow just in case"

>Lympyc smiles.

>Lympyc asks, "could i get the ambush attack roll laid out for me, and will 180 in ambush, if the person hits, give out a rank 9 crit verse non crit padded enemies?"

>Lympyc says, "for the second question i got a bit more to add on later"

>Amerlise says, "Okay, that first, then."

>Lympyc smiles.

>Lympyc says, "so....with say 280 in ambush"

>Amerlise says, "This is basically what happens when you ambush from hiding...and I haven't studied this as much as some people."

>Lympyc asks, "a crit rank 9 would still be given againt 10x crit padding?"

>Lympyc babbles something unintelligible.

>Lympyc nods to Amerlise.

>Amerlise says, "First, if it's aimed, there's a check to see if you make the shot.."

>Amerlise says, "That is, do you parry? There's always a chance of that, no matter how much ambush training you have."

>Lympyc nods.

>Amerlise asks, "If you don't parry, do you hit the target, but not where you aim?"

>Lympyc asks, "isnt it 5% on the parry?"

>Amerlise says, "Some people say those are decided by the same roll.."

>Lympyc nods.

>Amerlise nods to Lympyc.

>Amerlise says, "Most people also say that it's always a 5% chance of the parry."

>Amerlise says, "I've never tested that."

>Lympyc nods.

>Amerlise says, "I also don't agree that the parry and the hit-the-critter-but-miss-the-aimed-shot are the same roll."

>Amerlise says, "Sometimes it seems like I parry every other shot.."

>Amerlise says, "But I haven't hit the wrong area in years and years."

>Amerlise says, "If I don't parry, I hit where I aimed. So I think they're two different checks."

>Lympyc smiles.

>Amerlise says, "Then, the damage is checked normally.."

>Amerlise says, "(success margin - 100) * damage factor + 0.5"

>Amerlise says, "Then, the regular crit rank is also gotten normally, and I'll tell ya why I say that.."

>Amerlise says, "If you fail to get a rank 1 crit on the critter, then no matter how much ambush you have, it's not added to the crit rank at all."

>Amerlise says, "That's why if you get like, a 110 roll against something wearing plate mail, you just scratch it."

>Amerlise says, "Then, if you DID hit it hard enough, the appropriate crit ranks are added. ambush/10 for unaimed hidden shots, ambush/20 for aimed shots."

>Lympyc nods to Amerlise.

>Amerlise says, "110 was just the first number I pulled out of my head."

>Amerlise says, "Depending on the weapon you use and the critters armor type, could be higher, could be lower."

>Lympyc nods.

>Lympyc asks, "the other question was....if i had a 280 in ambush and aimed at a enemy with 10x crit padding....would i get a rank 9 crit?"

>Amerlise says, "After the modified crit rank is determined, the combat system checks for padding in the critter."

>Lympyc babbles something unintelligible.

>Lympyc nods to Amerlise.

>Lympyc says, "im jumping the gun"

>Amerlise says, "Okay, well, first, that goes back to what I said earlier about 10x padding."

>Lympyc babbles something unintelligible.

>Amerlise just nudged Lympyc.

>Amerlise says, "But if someone did have armor, gods help me, that lowered the crit rank by 10, yes, you would still get the rank 9 crit."

>Amerlise says, "The crit rank equation is similar to the AS - DS + AvD thing.."

>Amerlise says, "You have raw crit rank + weighting + ambush - padding."

>Amerlise asks, "That answer it?"

>Amerlise scratches her chin.

>Lympyc says, "umm"

>Lympyc says, "so if a rogue trained to 280 in ambush he would get a rank 9 crit verse everything or are some thing above it?'"

>Amerlise says, "I apologize this is running a lot longer than I intended, folks. We might not even get to two-weapon and some of the other stuff tonight."

>Amerlise says, "Oh, well, really, there's probably nothing in the lands that has padding that good."

>Lympyc beams!

>Lympyc says, "oh good"

>Amerlise says, "I have.."

>Lympyc says, "thats it from me...thanx for yer patience"

>(Amerlise checks.)

>Lympyc babbles something unintelligible.

>Lympyc says, "go on..."

>Amerlise says, "228 in ambush, and yes, I'm woefully undertrained in it, before anyone says something.."

>Amerlise says, "But I haven't seen anything I can't kill from hiding."

>Amerlise says, "As long as you get that rank 1 crit."

>Lympyc chuckles.

>Amerlise says, "The most padding I've heard of anything having, is stone giants."

>Amerlise says, "They seem, from what I can tell, to drop the crit rank by about 6 ranks, which is a ton."

>Lympyc's face turns slightly pale.

>Amerlise says, "Especially considering they aren't exactly thin-skinned."

>Amerlise says, "Okay..moving right along.."

>Amerlise curtsies to Lympyc.

>Amerlise exclaims, "Braenna!"

>Braenna stands up.

>Braenna curtsies to Amerlise.

>Amerlise curtsies to Braenna.

>Amerlise says, "Oh, wait.."

>Braenna says, "First I should say thank you for having this forum."

>Braenna asks, "hmm?"

>Amerlise says, "Braenna, I apologize...I've skipped Ariol three times since she said she came back.."

>Braenna says, "Okay I will wait."

>Braenna smiles at Amerlise.

>Braenna sits down.

>Amerlise says, "She's going to jump up and beat me in a sec. :)"

>Amerlise exclaims, "You're next, tho!"

>Braenna chuckles.

>Jinesse chuckles.

>Braenna beams!

>Ariol grins.

>Ariol just hugged Amerlise.

>Amerlise blushes a nice shade of off-pink.

>Amerlise says, "Really sorry about that. :)"

>Amerlise winks at Ariol.

>Ariol says, "IM sorry about the not being able to reply. lag monster had me"

>Ariol says, "okies.. my question is based on the obvious glut of new items that are nigh/near/virtually, etc unbreakable as they can be... "

>Ariol asks, "I have noticed that rankings are being stantardized for the most part.. will breakage/ a weapons RESISTANCE to said breakage be standardized and assesible?"

>Ariol asks, "also.. will pathkits and firld repair kits be made available as Ive heared they will be?"

>Ariol says, "oops.. patchkits I mean"

>Amerlise says, "Hee.."

>Amerlise says, "Okay...first.."

>Ariol grins.

>Amerlise says, "Anything I say on this is going to be speculation, as all I have to go on is what I've heard, read, and how it was handled in the ice age."

>Ariol nods.

>Amerlise says, "Now, by all accounts, yes, there will be quick patches available, so you don't have to flee to town so your 10x flaming sword of demon mincing doesn't snap like a twig.."

>Ariol giggles.

>Amerlise says, "But I've also heard that using them too often can eventually lower your weapons overall durability."

>Amerlise says, "How the repair skill will be handled, I couldn't say. Most signs point towards either forges, the warrior guild, or a combination of the two."

>Amerlise says, "Now, way back when, the way breakage was measured.."

>Amerlise says, "Each base item had specific breakage and strength factors tied to it.."

>Amerlise says, "I don't remember the exact numbers, but a falchion might have a 140 strength..that's probably way off."

>Amerlise says, "And each type of material had specific modifiers associated with it.."

>Amerlise says, "Golvern might be, say, +25.."

>Amerlise says, "So a golvern falchion would have a 165 strength.."

>Amerlise says, "If I remember correctly.."

>Amerlise says, "Oh, and I should point out, before someone gets the wrong idea, Amerlise wasn't around in the ice age, and I didn't bother with all this stuff as a sorcerer."

>Amerlise says, "I'm going by the lists Lyle has posted a few times."

Ariol grins.

>Amerlise says, "But! If I remember correctly it was nigh-impossible for a non-magical weapon to break a magical weapon."

>Amerlise says, "With some exception, like your flimsy neighborhood rapier."

>Amerlise says, "But yes, while we almost certainly won't use the Rolemaster-copyrighted breakage system.."

>Amerlise says, "It almost certainly will be standardized, after a fashion."

>Amerlise says, "Those are, like I said, personal speculations...take 'em with a grain of salt. :)"

>Ariol asks, "Im interested in knowing if the Warrior class will be allowed to assess an items ranking in strenght as well as the current items?"

>Amerlise asks, "Did I miss any part of that multi-faceted question?"

>Ariol says, "but you probably dont know that"

>Amerlise says, "Could well be. It does seem rather likely-sounding, but right, I can't predict that."

>Ariol nods.

>Ariol says, "thank you Milady for your time"

>Amerlise says, "I would be just as inclined to think an accomplished forger could tell."

>Ariol stands up.

>Ariol curtsies to Amerlise.

>Amerlise curtsies to Ariol.

>Amerlise says, "And thank you, for your patience with my memory."

>Amerlise chuckles.

>Ariol just hugged Amerlise.

>Amerlise says, "And thank you for your patience, Braenna..."

>Braenna smiles at Amerlise.

>Braenna stands up.

>Braenna says, "of course.."

>Braenna curtsies to Amerlise.

>Braenna says, "Thank you again for your patience with all of us tonight."

>Braenna beams happily at Amerlise!

>Amerlise grins.

>Braenna says, "Okay, two questions. First one is kind of long. Second one is very short."

>Amerlise says, "Long one first.."

>Amerlise grins.

>Amerlise leans against a wooden ladder.

>Braenna says, "I am somewhat confused regarding ambushing from hiding without aiming. I had thought that it was used like this ambush <critter>, and not attack <critter>, yet I have heard at two Mentor forums now that attack <critter> from hiding does indeed add crits. This is confusing to me, because I have always seen the three seconds extra that ambushing instead of attacking gives you as a sort of penalty for being able to add crits. And if what you said that attacking from hiding also doubles the amount of crit given as well as shortening the time required to swing. Then why not always attack from hiding? Wouldn't it be safer? Often if I could swing one second faster (and I almost always ambush) I could have made it back to a defensive stance and wouldn't have gotten hit (and possibly killed)."

>Amerlise cowers.

>Amerlise says, "Gimme a sec to sort through that.."

>Braenna pants.

>Braenna chuckles.

>Braenna nods to Amerlise.

>Amerlise says, "Okay.."

>Amerlise says, "The disadvantage to using attack from hiding.."

>Amerlise says, "And just using attack does add the crit ranks, by the way, from hiding.."

>Braenna says, "That is what confuses me the most."

>Amerlise says, "I suspect ambush without specifying a target would do the same, but I've always just used attack."

>Braenna says, "It does."

>Amerlise says, "The disadvantage to using attack from hiding is that you don't get the aimed shot...that's it."

>Braenna says, "But I will tell you what has me really confused.."

>Amerlise says, "Often as not, that can make the difference between life and death."

>Braenna nods to Amerlise.

>Amerlise says, "If you're fighting a harbinger that can Bind you just as easily standing or prone.."

>Amerlise says, "And you use attack and hit a leg..well...if you get bound, that could be ugly."

>Braenna winces.

>Braenna nods.

>Amerlise says, "And harbingers don't stun, so losing a leg will just make it madder."

>Braenna says, "I can see that."

>Braenna says, "ew"

>Braenna nods to Amerlise.

>Amerlise says, "That's just an example, of course. There are probably times that you might use attack, unaimed, from hiding.."

>Braenna says, "But I still have a question regarding this."

>Braenna says, "And that is.."

>Amerlise says, "But really, by the time you're getting the death crits every time on aimed shot, you can probably aim in five or six seconds pretty easily."

>Braenna nods.

>Braenna says, "If you just attack, it isnt ambushing...so where and how does your ambush skill come into play? "

>Amerlise says, "Ah, because the monster is still vulnerable, if you do it from hiding."

>Braenna asks, "What determines the crit ranking? Is it loosly based on your ambush skill?"

>Amerlise says, "Supposedly, it doesn't know where you came from, and where you're aiming at, and can't defend against it as well."

>Braenna asks, "Or can anyone who can manage to hide then crit something from hiding with no ambush skill needed?"

>Amerlise says, "That's the premise behind ambush, as I see it."

>Amerlise says, "Nope, not at all."

>Amerlise says, "The added crit ranks from hiding come solely from the ambush skill."

>Braenna says, "That would be like a free skill.."

>Braenna nods to Amerlise.

>Amerlise says, "It's not tied loosely, it's tied directly."

>Braenna smiles.

>Braenna beams!

>Amerlise says, "However, it's still too much gain for too little train, in my opinion."

>Amerlise says, "40 ranks of ambush is enough to crit almost anything from hiding, in one shot."

>Braenna nods to Amerlise.

>Amerlise says, "Erp...but we won't get into that, here."

>Braenna says, "And this leads somewhat to my second question."

>Braenna smiles.

>Amerlise nods to Braenna.

>Braenna asks, "Is there a max crit that ambushing can give?"

>Amerlise says, "Well...yes and no."

>Amerlise asks, "Could I be any more vague?"

>Braenna chuckles.

>Amerlise says, "There IS a max crit.."

>Braenna says, "You said like on of them.."

>Amerlise says, "You can't get higher than a rank 9 crit, period."

>Braenna gazes up into the heavens.

>Amerlise says, "But, since more than just ambushing affects the crit rank.."

>Braenna says, "er one of even"

>Amerlise asks, "It was like...who said it...Lympyc?"

>Amerlise says, "If you hit something that has so much padding that it lowers the crit rank by 10.."

>Amerlise says, "Which is an ungodly amount, but hypothetically.."

>Braenna nods.

>Amerlise says, "And you only have 180 in ambush, it's going to lower the crit rank by more than you add."

>Amerlise says, "If you aim, that is."

>Amerlise snaps her fingers.

>(Braenna prays that she will never have to worry about that either.)

>Amerlise says, "But that's the theoretical truth of it."

>Braenna nods to Amerlise.

>Braenna asks, "And attacking from hiding doubles that crit?"

>Amerlise says, "I don't foresee them ever making a critter with that much padding.."

>Braenna says, "we hope"

>Braenna grins.

>Amerlise says, "Which means that, compared to how much of it we use, ambush is pretty overpowered."

>Braenna nods.

>Amerlise says, "I add almost 23 crit ranks if I attack from hiding, unaimed? A waste? Sorta."

>Amerlise says, "But there's still no reason to stop. :)"

>Braenna says, "hmm"

>Braenna says, "That is a whole different discussion though."

>Amerlise nods to Braenna.

>Braenna says, "But I can tell you I am happy I crit how I do. Very."

>Amerlise says, "Ya, we're going to have a separate forum on ambush, I believe."

>Amerlise cocks her head at Jinesse.

>Jinesse nods to Amerlise.

>Jinesse says, "I think that'd be a good idea."

>Jinesse rubs her chin thoughtfully.

>Braenna asks, "But attacking from hiding I could double that?"

>Amerlise says, "Jinesse is my idol, by the way. Just wanted you all to know that."

>Braenna beams happily at you!

>Jinesse gives Amerlise a smooch.

>Amerlise leans against a wooden ladder.

>Braenna giggles.

>Amerlise says, "Erm...if I know what you're asking.."

>Jinesse exclaims, "And Amerlise is mine!"

>Jinesse winks.

>Braenna says, "That's all thank you."

>Amerlise says, "If you just attack from hiding, instead of aiming from hiding.."

>Braenna nods to Amerlise.

>Amerlise says, "Then yes, you'll add double the crit ranks."

>Braenna says, "Yes"

>Amerlise asks, "But, how much ambush do you, personally, have?"

>Braenna rubs her chin thoughtfully.

>Braenna says, "uhm"

>Amerlise asks, "I'm guessing at least 150 or 160?"

>(Braenna counts)

>Braenna blushes a nice shade of off-pink.

>Amerlise says, "Skill, not ranks."

>Braenna says, "Uhm"

>Braenna gulps.

>Braenna says, "I'm undertrained in ambushing"

>Amerlise says, "I can't really guess how old ya are, so.. :)"

>Braenna says, "around 140"

>Amerlise says, "So am I."

>Amerlise says, "Okay, so on an aimed shot, you add 7 out of the possible max of 9 crit ranks."

>Braenna smiles.

>Amerlise says, "The only time you'd really need to attack from hiding without aiming would be against something like the aforementioned stone giants.."

>Amerlise says, "Something with rediculous amounts of padding."

>Braenna grins.

>Braenna says, "I was really mentioning it on the point of it more than the need."

>Amerlise grins.

>Amerlise nods to Braenna.

>Braenna curtsies.

>Amerlise asks, "Okay, moving along, then, if that's all you had?"

>Braenna sits down.

>Amerlise curtsies to Braenna.

>Amerlise asks, "Kestlyn?"

>Kestlyn stands up.

>Amerlise smiles at Kestlyn.

>Kestlyn smiles.